Podcast Episode 1: Dwelling for the Holidays? – The Household Dinner Venture

We’re thrilled to announce the launch of our newest enterprise: The Family Dinner Project Podcast! In every of our 30-minute episodes, Content material Supervisor Bri DeRosa and Government Director Dr. Anne Fishel will speak via powerful subjects associated to household meals. Pull up a chair and seize a plate — we’re serving up actual discuss household dinner!

In Episode 1, “Dwelling for the Holidays?” we dig into the difficult query of what to do when gathering with household for the vacations feels difficult. Will there be rigidity on the dinner desk? Political or ideological variations that make it laborious to remain merry? Does it even really feel protected to go residence for the vacations?

Dr. Fishel shares methods and recommendation from her many years of expertise in household remedy. From neutralizing rigidity with good concepts for video games and dialog starters that distract from variations, to providing knowledge and solace for households who’re coping with estrangement this vacation season, she presents loads of methods to make the vacations give you the results you want, it doesn’t matter what your loved ones dynamics appear to be. She and Bri additionally delve into popular culture with a dialogue of the viral Christmas dinner episode of Hulu’s The Bear. (No marvel Carmy didn’t wish to go residence for the vacations!) They wrap up the dialog with their suggestions for vacation meals (latkes), enjoyable (a holiday dinner scavenger hunt), and dialog (Who do you would like might be part of us for the vacations, who isn’t current this yr?). Whether or not you’re trying ahead to a family holiday celebration this yr, or simply attempting to outlive a sophisticated season, we’ve received concepts you should utilize.

Episode Transcript:

Episode 1: Dwelling for the Holidays?

Anne Fishel: Welcome to the Household Dinner Venture podcast, produced by the Household Dinner Venture, a non revenue program primarily based at Massachusetts Normal Hospital’s Psychiatry Academy. A long time of analysis present us why household dinners are vital. They’re nice for the our bodies, the brains, and the psychological well being of youngsters and adults.

Bri DeRosa: However they’re not at all times straightforward. We’re right here to speak in regards to the messy enterprise of learn how to make household dinners occur. So pull up a chair and seize a plate. We’re serving up actual discuss household dinner.

Welcome to the Household Dinner Venture podcast. I’m Bri DeRosa, content material supervisor for the Household Dinner Venture. 

Anne Fishel: I’m Anne Fishel, the co founder and government director of The Household Dinner Venture, and I’m additionally a household therapist, which can come in useful in the present day. I head up the household and {couples} remedy program additionally, at Mass Normal Hospital.

Bri DeRosa: I really feel such as you being a household therapist is unquestionably going to come in useful in the present day, Annie, given the subjects that we’ve on the desk for this episode. I simply wish to give our listeners a bit of little bit of an outline of why we began this podcast. That is our first episode and we’re so pleased to be right here.

The Household Dinner Venture has been offering on-line and in individual assets to households since. Gosh, 2010. I imply, it’s been a extremely very long time, and we’ve had tens of millions of individuals come to our web site. We’ve helped hundreds and hundreds of households in individual at our neighborhood packages. We’ve developed numerous assets, print, on-line, every kind of issues.

However it’s actually limiting generally to simply be writing or creating graphics and never at all times have the ability to actually have an trustworthy dialog about a number of the issues that folks really need us to speak about. We hear from people on a regular basis about issues which are bothering them or issues that they’d like extra assist with.

And so this podcast is our means of attempting to dig a bit of bit deeper into a number of the issues in regards to the how of household dinner that may simply be so, so difficult for individuals. So. Given, provided that framing, in the present day is December…December 4th, and we’re recording and preparing for a vacation season arising. And Annie, you, as a household therapist, know higher than anybody that the vacations may be difficult. And household dinner on the holidays may be past difficult, I assume is what I wish to say.

So, I wish to ask you, how can we, when individuals are attempting to collect for large household dinners, holidays, celebrations. How can we preserve form of rigidity low and preserve everybody having enjoyable and feeling engaged, even when possibly not everybody will get alongside on a regular basis? 

Anne Fishel: Yeah, it’s a problem. I believe expectations run actually excessive at holidays, and we include a lot historical past normally.

And I believe that the acquainted trope of feeling that while you go residence, you all of a sudden turn out to be an individual a lot youthful than your precise age as you form of fold into your loved ones system. So I believe, , being conscious that it’s, it’s troublesome for everyone and what can we do to, as you say, make the enjoyable greater and the battle decrease?

I believe protecting in thoughts what it’s that you just get pleasure from most in regards to the holidays and attempting to just be sure you get that, whether or not it’s a favourite meals that you just ensure that is on the vacation desk, or a recreation, or someone that you just’re actually trying ahead to seeing, since you solely see them yearly, and making a beeline for that individual so that you’re positive to make a connection. And I believe in case you’re internet hosting the vacations, there are issues that you are able to do to boost all people’s enjoyment. 

One factor is possibly to have some conversations up your sleeve that will likely be inclusive of all people within the household. Or having a recreation. I, in 2016, after the dicey election once I, at my vacation desk, I didn’t know if all people was going to really feel upset or joyful in regards to the election outcomes. And I believed there might be numerous battle at my desk. And I designed what I name the hat recreation. And I put on the door a hat and a bunch of publish its, and as individuals got here in, I posed a query, which was, what was– what was, or is, your favourite toy? And write it down, and on one other piece of paper, write down a e-book that modified your life ultimately. After which I introduced the hat to the desk and I pulled out the solutions, which have been nameless. And I requested individuals to guess. Who stated slinky? Who stated, jacks and a ball? Who stated ping pong? After which whoever had made that providing might elaborate on it.

And the dialog would lengthen, or we might go on to the subsequent individual. And that supplied a desk broad dialog devoid of any political content material. And it was stunning. Folks discovered new issues about one another. 

Bri DeRosa: I like that a lot. And I believe what I like about it’s, , you stated proper on the, the highest there that, , getting along with our households brings us again to a unique second in our lives, proper?

It form of rewinds the clock a bit of bit. And I believe we, numerous us can really feel the reality of that. And while you’re bringing it, bringing the dialog to a spot about childhood toys or books or, , issues that, that additionally form of construct on that reminiscence and, and, , completely different moments in your life, and take it out of form of the stress and the fraughtness of like no matter’s taking place proper now on this planet.

Yeah, there’s one thing actually nostalgic and great about that. That’s additionally not too avoidant, I assume, ? 

Anne Fishel: Proper. It’s not simply how, how, how is the climate the place you got here from? You realize, it’s a, it’s a bit of step up from that. 

I believe type of piggybacking on the thought of utilizing the nostalgia and the collective reminiscence that is also round, usually is across the household dinner desk. It may be actually enjoyable and attention-grabbing to ask someone to inform a well-recognized story. You realize Uncle Jack, we haven’t heard that story about how you bought fired out of your first job that all of us, , at all times get pleasure from a lot. Would you thoughts telling that once more? Or, , I’ve a pricey good friend who at all times involves my vacation meals and I wish to ask her in entrance of my children, to inform some tales about rising up within the South throughout the civil rights motion, and he or she’s received some fabulous historic tales about that. And so, form of, , utilizing the household gathering to inform and bear in mind tales, I believe is admittedly vital. You realize, simply may be enjoyable. 

Bri DeRosa: Yeah, no, I, I like that. I, I like that concept. And I believe, , it simply makes me assume actually final evening we have been, we had a while as a household. We watched a vacation film collectively. We– my teenage boys wished to rewatch Dwelling Alone. So we have been watching Dwelling Alone, and there’s the form of secondary storyline in there of the older neighbor who’s estranged from his son, despite the fact that they stay in the identical city.

And one thing about that storyline actually form of caught my children’ consideration this yr. I believe it was simply possibly a element they’d not thought of very a lot earlier than, and it gave me a fantastic alternative to say, , did you ever hear the story about when your grandfather and your nice grandfather, who lived in the identical city, didn’t communicate to one another for six months? They usually stated, What? Grandpa? And I stated, yeah, no, oh my gosh, I can’t imagine you didn’t know that story. 

And so we talked about that and it, it allowed me to carry to life for them some individuals who have been actually influential in my life as a baby that they by no means had the chance to actually construct relationships with and get to know, and it was simply that good second of like, hey, this vacation film out of nowhere supplied us this household storytelling alternative. And, and I believe it was actually, it was actually simply form of like a wealthy and great second for them.

Anne Fishel: Love that. Yeah. 

Bri DeRosa: And so talking of flicks and TV and content material that form of brings us via to issues that we wish to discuss, this goes to the query of rigidity on the desk and bringing forth concepts about our holidays and, and household relationships from well-liked media.

We don’t do numerous popular culture on the Household Dinner Venture, however once we do, it’s for a motive. And you lately wrote an amazing weblog publish for us about your response to the hit present, The Bear, and their Christmas dinner episode, Fishes. And if I’ll simply say for our listeners, like in case you haven’t watched The Bear and also you haven’t seen the episode, I believe this dialog will nonetheless possibly make sense to you, so persist with us. However when you’ve got seen it, you’re going to undoubtedly have your personal opinions about this. 

Annie, let’s discuss The Bear. It is a place the place individuals went into this household dinner, this vacation dinner, with possibly one of the best of intentions, proper? However this, this, there’s a lot there about, , a baby who didn’t wish to go residence for the vacations and didn’t wish to– 

Anne Fishel: –Perhaps shouldn’t have gone residence.

Bri DeRosa: Perhaps shouldn’t have gone residence, proper. And, and undoubtedly was put in that place. You realize, once I watched that episode, I see Carmy getting put again into that place of the, the little sibling, proper? The little child. Everyone’s treating him not as this like wonderful Michelin starred chef, however as this, , very small individual within the household unit. And there’s a lot drama and battle and all the pieces happening and definitely completely different ideologies, actually completely different concepts about life and household and holidays and every kind of various issues happening. Speak to us a bit of bit about all of this. What, what’s it… what can individuals take away from an, an episode like this?

What does it inform us about while you possibly shouldn’t go residence? Whenever you possibly can’t have that household vacation dinner? When, when the hat recreation isn’t sufficient, I assume? 

Anne Fishel: When is the hat recreation not sufficient? 

Bri DeRosa: When is the hat recreation not sufficient? 

Anne Fishel: Sure. So, oh, there’s a lot to speak about with The Bear. I imply, it’s additionally a household that’s combating numerous psychological well being challenges.

The matriarch, Donna, clearly has a extreme downside with alcohol. She drinks volubly all through the episode and is sobbing and, spoiler alert, drives her automotive via the eating room by the top of the episode. So there’s numerous psychopathology that the household is coping with, however there’s additionally numerous tenderness and makes an attempt for connection and, and candy moments peppered all through the dinner.

So I assume my takeaways have been, have been a pair, some that I’ve alluded to. Issues actually begin to devolve round one of many– Mikey, one of many sons, retelling a narrative for the umpteenth time and one other member of the family getting livid. And I believed, no, let Mikey inform that story. That’s one of many foremost causes we collect for holidays, to inform tales in order that our kids, our grandchildren hear them. In order that they’re etched in our collective reminiscence, in order that we will bear in mind the individuals who informed the tales, even after they’re gone. So let Mikey inform that story. In order that that was one form of take away. 

One other was the best way that relations have a simply laser like skill to press our buttons. I imply, who is aware of us higher than our dad and mom, our kids, our, our nieces, our nephews. And so coming to household vacation meals, simply girding ourselves to not let these buttons be punched or pushed. And as an alternative to possibly have, if we all know that that’s a household type, to have some comeback. I actually would reasonably not discuss my weight achieve this yr. I actually hoped to speak to you a few journey I took. Or, that’s one thing that I solely talk about with my therapist and I don’t see a level subsequent to your title. Or in case you’re not feeling that snarky, why do you ask that? Why is that so attention-grabbing to you? So type of being prepared for that, possibly to have some, some comebacks.

After which I assume the opposite takeaway is the stress to not make a household meal good. And the corollary to that’s not placing a lot stress on your self, in case you’re the host, that you must management each morsel that individuals are going to eat and as an alternative to succeed in out and ask for assist. Even in case you don’t love the mashed potatoes that your uncle Sam makes, invite him to make it realizing that’s going to be an hour or two off, , that you just’re going to get again to your life and also you’re not going to be fairly as bedraggled and confused while you come to the desk. 

In order that, that was one other takeaway, as a result of the matriarch tries to make 7 dishes of fishes come out all on the similar time. I imply, it’s such a recipe for catastrophe. Who might probably make that meal occur all by herself? 

Bri DeRosa: And but, by the best way, any Italian-American listener proper now’s going yeah, no, that’s what you do although. Proper? That’s the Feast of the Seven Fishes. And it’s, there’s something form of fantastical and inconceivable about, , I believe for it doesn’t matter what your custom is, the best way that we method vacation meals, proper?

And in that, in that episode, even, I can by no means bear in mind his title. However their cousin’s associate, who’s simply so candy when he’s attempting to carry all the pieces collectively by providing his model of some type of– I believe it’s imagined to be Grace, proper? However it’s fairly loosely identifiable as Grace. He’s attempting to calm all people down. He’s attempting to maintain Mikey from throwing a fork. Proper. And he form of alludes to the specialness and the form of fantastical nature of this vacation meal and what they’re attempting to attain with the meals, with the gathering, with the approaching collectively, and what all of it actually means at this type of like deeper molecular degree. 

Anne Fishel: We’re going to must chew extra and we’re going to must pay attention extra. 

Bri DeRosa: Chew extra and we’re going to must pay attention extra. Proper. It’s wonderful. And it’s, , and it makes, it does make you assume, proper. Pete exhibits up together with his tuna casserole. And the very first thing all of them do is go, No no no!

Proper. That is just like the eighth fish. We can’t have eight fishes. There are seven fishes and, and all the pieces is completely deliberate. Proper. And the tuna casserole goes to set the universe off its axis. Proper. This poor, candy, dope Pete, who’s simply attempting to assist. Proper. However he wasn’t requested and it’s, , it’s such a excessive stress state of affairs.

Anne Fishel: And when individuals are requested, it not solely takes the burden off the host, nevertheless it additionally makes individuals really feel like they’re creating it, too, like this vacation belongs to all people. And that’s, I believe, such an vital a part of making a vacation enjoyable and lowering battle all on the similar time. It’s in all probability a lesson for normal meals too, not simply vacation meals, that the extra we will get our relations to take part, serving to to prepare dinner, serving to to set the desk, choosing a recreation, no matter it is likely to be, it makes all of them really feel like that is ours too. 

Bri DeRosa: Yeah, I like that, that concept of simply, we’re co creating an expertise collectively as a household, proper?

It’s not one individual. I believe one of many issues in, in The Bear, in that episode Fishes, but in addition in numerous the extra tense and difficult actual life household gatherings that all of us have, is that side of management, proper? And a part of the place I believe even on a regular basis household dinners go awry– and we hear this so much in numerous methods from individuals, from households over time– there’s at all times, nearly at all times, this aspect of needing to regulate the surroundings, proper? One individual is type of scripting how they assume household meals should go. And possibly, possibly even there’s one other individual on the desk who has a completely completely different script for a way the household meal should go. And that’s the place it begins to disintegrate as a result of we’re not co creating.

We’re, we’re attempting to observe completely different scripts and completely different concepts and completely different guidelines and completely different tips and constructions. And if we’re not all on the identical web page and we’re not all working collectively to make the expertise, it could actually actually trigger challenges, I believe. 

Yeah, so what what occurs… I imply, , we’ve talked about form of the solvability of a few of this, proper? However what occurs in case you simply actually, to your level about Carmy, shouldn’t go residence? Or you’ll be able to’t, you don’t really feel protected going residence. I don’t wish to ought to individuals. Proper. However like, you don’t really feel protected going residence. There are numerous households on the market who sadly are in the course of rupture they usually’re not in a position to restore.

Anne Fishel: Proper, or they don’t really feel protected due to how their household goes to deal with their kids, as a result of their kids are homosexual or trans they usually don’t wish to topic their children to tough questions or rolling, rolled eyes, or, , disparaging feedback. And for these households, it might be the, one of the best thought to not go residence for holidays. Perhaps to make use of it as a, as a possibility to speak to a household about why they don’t really feel protected, or possibly not. Perhaps even that appears like an excessive amount of. 

Some households would possibly wish to simply have a fast cellphone name to say pleased holidays, or zoom and go away it at that. However for households who aren’t going residence it’s additionally an opportunity to give you their very own methods to create pleasure or have a celebration with one another or simply determine, , what would we love to do?

We’ve got a free day. We don’t must go to work or college. What’s going to, what would we love to do? Perhaps it’s taking a hike or watching a household, watching a vacation film, or making a luscious dessert collectively. You realize, it might be simply reinventing the vacation on their very own phrases. 

Bri DeRosa: Yeah, , I believe that’s so vital.

I believe I’ve personally been conscious this yr of extra individuals in my orbit than in all probability ever earlier than who’re dealing with a extremely troublesome vacation season. The shortcoming to be with household for one motive or one other, numerous them traumatic causes. And, , we’ve all been brainstorming a bit of bit about learn how to assist.

You realize, what are you able to do? What might be your new custom this yr? What might you check out along with your children? Or, or, , by yourself with your folks, your loved ones of alternative, proper? Perhaps you’re going to have a good friend primarily based vacation, a neighborhood vacation. And a number of the, a number of the concepts have been actually enjoyable.

You realize, they’re, one of many issues is there’s this Icelandic custom that makes the rounds yearly on the web of giving books and sweets to 1 one other after which spending the day studying collectively and being cozy and consuming chocolate. And that is likely to be the vibe for some individuals, proper?

Or one other factor was you will get– 

Anne Fishel: –I do know, we noticed that. And I stated to my husband, is it too late to name off our common vacation celebration? I would like to enroll in that one! 

Bri DeRosa: I do know, proper. Books and chocolate seems like my vibe. 

One other one which I used to be loving was, I believe numerous us like to hate on the Hallmark vacation film. You realize, the, the one plot, 82 motion pictures form of a factor. Don’t, don’t– please don’t write to us, all people. We, we love Hallmark vacation motion pictures. However the, you will get bingo playing cards on-line. Like, that is such a factor now. You possibly can truly print out bingo playing cards from any variety of websites that, and switch the Hallmark vacation film watching into form of a recreation of, , Oh, effectively, there’s the, the overworked girl who’s leaving her metropolis job and going residence. And right here’s the lumberjack man who has a Christmas tree farm. And, , you’ll be able to form of mark your bingo playing cards. 

And so, , enjoyable issues like that, foolish issues like that may, I believe, actually lighten the temper. However it’s additionally simply actually laborious. I simply wish to, like, sit for a minute with the acknowledgement that it’s actually laborious. If you happen to’re someone who’s dealing with grief or loss or estrangement or any form of, , vacation trauma this yr, yeah, you’ll be able to, you should buy some books and a few chocolate or you’ll be able to watch Hallmark motion pictures or you are able to do no matter you’re going to do. However there’s, there’s actual feeling there. And so do you could have any form of, I don’t know, phrases of knowledge or solace to supply individuals? Methods to cope with these emotions?

Anne Fishel: Yeah, I imply, I believe you’ve, you’ve put it rather well, Bri. I believe acknowledging it and possibly reaching out to someone else who’s additionally having a tough time, who isn’t seeing this as a time of nice pleasure and frivolity and, and so forth. And, , doing the issues that make you are feeling taken care of, , whether or not it’s sitting and studying a e-book or taking a stroll by your self, or, , ensuring to attach with someone who cares about you and who you are feeling at residence with, , residence is admittedly not synonymous with household. House is, is a sense, it’s a sense of being snug in your personal pores and skin while you’re with someone else. And so reaching out to whoever that is likely to be for you. Might be a therapist. It might be a good friend. It might be a, a, a baby. It might be , whoever it’s. 

Bri DeRosa: I like that, that concept that house is being snug in your personal pores and skin, proper?

And I believe we at all times attempt to inform individuals household additionally doesn’t must be outlined by blood. Household may be the individuals who offer you that feeling of residence, proper? That feeling of consolation in your personal pores and skin and that feeling of worth and security. So thanks for, thanks for that, serving to us form of body these difficult vacation season feelings.

There’s so much this time of yr that comes up, ? 

Anne Fishel: I believe many people are relieved once we can flip the web page on the calendar. 

Bri DeRosa: Yeah, New Yr’s Day is type of that chance for a recent begin, proper? 

Effectively, talking of turning the web page, we’re coming to the top of our very first episode of the Household Dinner Venture podcast. And I’ve had a lot enjoyable speaking to you, Annie, and getting your extremely clever and useful insights about this very troublesome and difficult and in addition joyful and great time of yr. It’s a giant combined bag for households. 

Anne Fishel: It’s. 

Bri DeRosa: Yeah, so we wished to start our personal custom right here on the podcast of ending our episodes with some strategies for our three pillars of household meals.

We at all times say that we’re about meals, enjoyable, and dialog about issues that matter. And so on the finish of every episode, Annie and I wish to provide our listeners one thought for meals, one for enjoyable, and one for a dialog starter that we expect could be nice so that you can take ahead into your loved ones dinner follow for the remainder of the season, till we meet once more on our subsequent episode in 2024.

So Annie, I’m gonna kick it off with you, asking you in regards to the meals side. I do know you could have a particular household vacation recipe that you just wanna name all people’s consideration to. 

Anne Fishel: Thanks. So December seventh is the first evening of Hanukkah, and I’m a part of a interfaith household. And my husband, who was raised in a Christian household, took possession of the latke recipe, which is the standard potato pancake recipe. And it’s on our web site. It’s actually fairly scrumptious. It may be scaled up. And for a lot of many years, we hosted a 3 generational chaotic, great, enormous Hanukkah occasion. And I’m positive that many of the friends got here primarily to get a nibble of these potato latkes, that are actually great.

Bri DeRosa: Effectively, it’s a nice recipe and it’s out there on the web site at thefamilydinnerproject.org/meals, and you may search latke, that’s L A T Okay E in case you don’t know learn how to spell it, and people, these will come straight up for you. 

Anne Fishel: And Bri, inform us one thing enjoyable that you just wish to share in regards to the vacation season.

Bri DeRosa: Thanks. Yeah, I’m so enthusiastic about this one. So I received eager about vacation dinners and about generally, we’re in a gaggle with individuals we don’t know very effectively, as a result of we don’t see them that usually or as a result of we’re mixing households or traditions or households. And we’re going to be doing that this yr. I, my sister is coming from out of city and he or she’s going to be spending a part of the vacations with my brother in regulation’s household with us, and he or she hasn’t met all of them. So I believed it is likely to be good to have a method to get to know one another a bit of bit higher and to form of discover out a bit of bit extra in regards to the traditions and the individuals you’re surrounded by.

So we got here up with a vacation dinner scavenger hunt. That is out there on our web site at thefamilydinnerproject.org/holidays. It’s a printable or a downloadable. You possibly can simply take a look at it in your cellphone, or you’ll be able to print it out and provides it to all people they usually can mark their sheets, and see what they’ll be taught in regards to the individuals and the meals which are being offered at this vacation dinner. So, actually, actually enjoyable. And I hope all people checks it out. 

After which our very last thing is, Annie, a dialog starter that basically strikes you as being the correct one for this second and this podcast episode and dialog that we’ve had. What would you ask individuals to go ahead and discuss? 

Anne Fishel: I believed it is likely to be attention-grabbing, and I wish to do that at my vacation dinner, to ask who else would you would like might be part of us tonight?

It might be a well-known individual, a celeb, it might be a member of the family who’s now not strolling this earth, it might be a good friend or a household who simply wasn’t out there to hitch us. And in case you wouldn’t thoughts additionally saying why. What, what you, why you want to that individual to be with us tonight. 

Bri DeRosa: Yeah, I believe that’s a extremely worthwhile one and actually speaks to the guts of this dialog. You realize, that it’s actually about form of making peace with the vacations that we’ve, and in addition considering aspirationally a bit of bit, and reflectively a bit of bit in regards to the holidays that we’ve had, or that we want we might create. And simply form of sitting with all of these revelations and emotions, which appears like a heavy method to finish this podcast, but in addition possibly the correct word for the vacations in 2023.

And we want everybody a beautiful season, it doesn’t matter what your celebrations appear to be, and a fantastic begin to 2024. And we will likely be again with extra household dinner actual speak in 2024. So be sure you observe us on the household dinner undertaking.org and on Threads and Instagram and Fb, and we’ll see you all subsequent yr.